26 thoughts on “Review: Nikon 200mm 2.0 IF-ED Ai – The first of its Kind”

1. Absolutely love that you continue to review these older and classic lenses. Thank you for all your time and efforts, it’s so interesting!

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2. Very good review again Bastian , I’am leaning to buy a AF-S-G version (I like the bokeh from what I have seen) or the Plena being much more compact and probably one of the best optics around. For me subject isolation in landscapes with 3D pop, and (tracked) astroshots are my favorite subjects with such a lens. I think the 200mm f2 might be a bit too heavy for the Skywatcher tracking mount. I have seen some amazing nebulea shots with the MF and AF version.

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   1. There will also be a review of the AF-S G version 🙂

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   2. Bjorn, for what it’s worth, and to reassure you, I can mention that the Canon 200mm f/1.8 works alright on the Skywatcher Star Adventurer mount, if that’s the mount you’re referring to – and that’s a particularly heavy 200mm. Focal length and lens physical length is the greater cause of danger for blurred/shaky images than weight, I think, and 200mm still isn’t all that long, fortunately.

      You have to use good practice in general, of course: the Star Adventurer should be on a decent tripod, with its legs not extended, etc. But it works.

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      1. Hi Geoffrey, thanks I did some tests with the Nikkor AIS ED 300 mm f2.8 which did’nt work out well even after perfect balancing it to both axis. That lens is too much for a Skywatcher Adventurer (so you guessed right)
         kr bjorn

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3. OMG, I have problems with my dog’s photographies with manual 50/2, can’t imagine how much luck/effort cost the one in the review with 200/2:D
   Great photos, they look really special!

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   1. I guess it also depends on the dog, with this one it for sure wasn’t easy 😅

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4. Nice to see someone reviewing old lenses. Your sample images show how capable it is wideopen. Aside from the chromatic aberation, which can be well corrected in post these days, it is one of the sharpest lenses wideopen, in the centre, that I have ever used. For sports I switched to the much newer and more convenient Nikon 80-200/2.8 AF-S. The zoom had no CA but was not as sharp. Although this may be the softest of these primes, it is still a very sharp lens. I miss the subject isolation and bokeh that you have illustrated so well.

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5. Would be interesting, seeing how the M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180/2.8 plays against these calibers 🙂

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   1. I own 180mm sonnar, zebra version, in pentacon six mount. Yesterday I’ve bought p6-sony e adapter, so this weekend I’ll test it with a7r3. I’ll post some photos here next week, if you’re interested.

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      1. Cool! This was a lens quite praised in the old days of the P6.

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6. An interesting coverage of yet another medium telephoto prime from decades past, to further emphasize the glaring absence of any solid –both in build quality and performance– available primes in this segment, for FF mirrorless cameras.

   Despite the obvious gaping hole between 135mm and 400mm, no one, not even Laowa, known for thinking out of the box and innovating with optics no one knew they needed, has made any effort to appropriate the market of 150, 180, 200, 250, 280, 300 and 350mm.

   The argument that medium telephoto primes represents a niche too meager for any manufacturer to consider dedicating resources to, sounds more and more like a self-fulfilling prophecy than the fruit of serious analysis.
   One solid fact that would arguably constitute evidence of very real demand for medium telephoto primes, are the absurd prices for lenses older than the camera enthusiasts prepared to buy them, listed on e-bay. A quick glance at the prices the alternatives to the 200mm f/2 Nikon featured here, lets you get an idea of the cash flow manufacturers are letting slip.

   Decades old lenses, used, with outdated coatings, without warranty or chances of getting service from original manufacturers, should the precious collectible items suffer any disgrace, are being bought for prices that far exceed and even double and triple the very best new lenses in production today.

   What would it take for Cosina to offer an updated version –and even if said update only applied to the coatings and not the optical design– of the Apo Lanthar Macro 180mm f/4, with a 1.4 and/or 2x Apo converter?
   I’d even be preperaed to adapt it o my Sony camera if it were brought back from the dead for their still kicking SL line-up.
   Why not 150, 180 or 280mm compact –2.8, 3.5 or f.4– Apo Lanthars to complete a solid and unrivalled landscape kit?

   Sure, the demand for relatively slow MF medium telephoto Apochromatic primes, below 1kg and that can be shot handheld, may not be the predictably highest, but how to know if you don’t offer them? Heck, I’d even pledge a grand per lens to crowdfund any of those focal lenghts with rocksolid performance and build quality. I might even consider a high-grade AF medium telephoto prime if Tamron or Samyang were up for it, and that’s quite desperate.

   What other options are there really? Buying used lenses whose legendary status or cult-following is more real than their overhyped performance? I don’t think so.

   Well, I think I don’t have to further preach to the choir, but what if we amplified our voices by making some sort of noise on the social media of manufacturers, and see if they pick up? I mean, if you could rally backers for a crowdfunding effort, the lack-of-sufficient-demand argument would be pretty much fall apart, not?

   What say you?

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   1. I pitched such lenses to many manufacturers already – with so far little success.
      Laowa might be up to it, but only after they figured all the AF stuff out, as they will not produce another Tele lens without AF.

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      1. I hear you, and I suspect you are not alone in doing so. What I assume has not yet been attempted before though, is a collective effort. How about doing a poll here among your readers and those at Fred Miranda’s fórum and alike? A survey to know which focal lengths, designs and characteristics the photography crowd are interested in, and the prices they are prepared to pay.
         As they say in my tongue, the worst effort is the one never undertaken.

         Schöne Grüße

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      2. Didn’t realize they were now that committed to AF, interesting…

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         1. Problem is rather that no one bought their 105mm STF lens.

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            1. All the more reason to ask photographers what kind of lenses they are interested in.

               Innovating with new exotic and interesting designs takes courage, but apparently asking photographers what they would most rather spend their hard-earned cash on, takes even more.

               All those looking for, and buying more “compact” –meaning handholdable– yet outdated MF medium telephoto lenses, should be a quite telling sign. Photographers willing to spend 4-8k on old Leica-R, Canon and Nikon medium telephoto lenses almost half a century old, IS an active market. And again, crowdfunding is a proven business model. So much so, that Meyer-Görlitz took off with the money.

               Times change and businesses should follow, and that goes for all manufacturers. There is money in the products not being made, but which photographers are genuinely interested in.

               I get it, most buyers know next to nothing and have zero interest in learning; most just want the latest buzz with all the AI and computational photography features and AI that do all the work of exposure for them. But who invests tens of thousands on entire camera/lens systems? Yup, Photographers.

               Discarding the gap between 135mm and 400mm because you didn’t sell a 105mm lens with an apodization element, is a flawed calculation, to put it politely.

   2. Zhong Yi released the Mitakon 200mm/4 1:1 Macro APO last year, though it hasn’t seemed to get much notice.

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      1. I doubt the folk looking for a “compat lightweight tele” want to deal with this 1.3 kg macro lens.
         I would rather use a 70-200mm 2.8 in that case 🙂

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         1. I would be most inclined towards a lens like the CV Macro Apo Lanthar 180mm f:4 , that weighs less than 500gr, and slightly more than a 1lb. It’s very compact for its focal length, being slightly longer than the Loxia 85mm f2.4, and extending quite some more.

            Nevertheless, and considering what is in existence out there, I wouldn’t hesitate to get the heavier and larger Leica Apo Elmarit 180mm f/2.8 R, and even pair it with the much heavier and larger Leica Apo-Telyt 280mm f/4 R (roughly the weight of the 100mm Otus). I have shot both handheld and have no problems there. What makes me hesitate here is the price. The former sells for at least 3-4k, and the latter for up to 6k. This is just not reasonable for lenses this old.
            What I would not do, is settle for some plastic telephoto prines or zooms that can cost nearly as much. In my order of priorities, I take the weight of a well built MF prime, over fast plastic AF primes or zooms.

            The thing is, we know compact MF telephoto primes with solid build quality are very feasible, and many older lenses certainly attest to it. They will outperform any telephoto zoom, and could be less expensive, and even more versatile with1.4x and 2x converters.
            Those who still buy Otus and Milvus DSLR MF primes, have no quibbles with paying for them nor lugging them around, so the weight and compactness aren’t necessarily the ultimate counter argument for manufacturers.
            When I think of Nikon’s 58mm NOCT I can’t help cracking up. To make a lens that showcases their engineering prowess, they had to double the weight of the Otus lenses, AND the price. So much for engineering competence there, lol.
            This frankly ridiculous piece of glass has sold quite a few copies, proving that weight, price and MF are not sufficient deterrence for good cash.

            So why would relatively compact handholdable MF telephoto primes be prohibitive in the sales estimates of manufacturers?
            If CV released a 105 f/2.8 prime with an apodization element tomorrow, and with the Apo Lanthar designation, I bet it would be on back-order just days after its release.
            This can be a matter of prestige and trust, which means that Laowa still has to overcome widespread prejudice against Chinese products, despite that it so far is orders of magnitude more relevant as a genuinely innovative and capable optics manufacturer, than all its competitors combined.

            I have Laowa’s 58mm and 90mm 2x Macro lenses, and have only praise for their achievement with these two lenses.

            I sincerely believe Laowa wouldn’t go wrong with a series of relatively compact Apochromatic MF telephoto primes, including focal lengths between 150 and 350mm, with teleconverters to make them more attractive. Needless to say, if CV or Zeiss released similar lenses, they would go as quickly as hot dogs.

            It’s time to rethink the camera and lenses business model, on the era of smartphones with 3 cameras and computational photography, let alone geopolitical tensions that shake markets.

            I’d start asking photographers what they want and need, and resort to crowdfunding if taking steps appears too uncertain.

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            1. Well, well, well…

               https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/wow-new-sigma-patent-discloses-the-design-of-a-new-300mm-f-2-8-and-400mmf-4-0-for-sony-fe/

         2. I doubt the folk looking for accurate information want made-up quotes that aren’t from the comment I was replying to. Rawiri was talking about the lack of primes between 135 and 400mm, and they listed a Chinese lens maker, APO, and macro, which all fit this lens. It’s a 200mm macro, which used to be a mainstay in the lens lineup of big manufacturers but has disappeared in recent generations, and that is what Rawiri was talking about: the absence of medium-telephoto primes in modern mirrorless systems. I haven’t seen much coverage of this Zhong Yi lens, so I thought people might appreciate being informed in case they hadn’t heard about it, despite it not being perfect at over 1kg. That lack of information and enthusiasm for the lens is also why I haven’t taken the plunge to get one myself though, despite valuing the opportunities a 200mm macro provides.

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            1. Hey there, Crazy Leica Fox, I was indeed aiming for the medium telephoto segment between 135 and 400mm, and lenses with the characteristics you mentioned. I would add that, being someone who only shoots stills, MF, and almost exclusively primes, I would however not give up the priority of a well made MF prime if compactnes and lightweight means plastic and AF. In the segment between 135 and 400mm, there are plenty of discontinued MF primes with decent performance, which weigh quite a bit less than 1kg, and even quite a few under 500gr up to 200mm and f/4.

               If you think of it, it’s quite a significant segment of focal lengths that, as you well point out, used to be well covered by camera/lens systems from most popular camera and lens manufacturers not that long ago. Hence, the only alternative to find reasonably sized medium telephoto MF primes with solid build and decent performance in that segment, these days, is tapping into the second hand market.

               I have to thank you for your very interesting and tempting recomendation of the Zhong Yi 200mm f/4 Macro Apo. I was totally unaware of it.
               As I mentioned in my previous comment, I would rather have something lighter, like the Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 180mm f/4, but if I have to apply my personal criteria, I gladly take the weight of a well and solidly built prime than the dubious plastic and/or fallible motors of some old telephoto primes or Zooms. I have shot up to 1800gr worth of glass handheld for hours, and with no complaints, and I regularly enjoy my MF Zeiss C/Y Vario Sonnar 100-300mm Zoom from 1994, that weighs a little under 1kg with adapter on my sony alphas. A different thing is carrying it around. My wife rebaptized my Billingham bag the “Killinghim”.

               I am seriously thinking of getting that Zhong Yi, as the price tag is unbelievable for such a special lens, and with an Apochromatic design. I had also been thinking about the Irix 150mm f/2.8 Macro, which is another MF medium telephoto prime with aparently solid build quality and an equally attractive price tag. Where I am less enthusiastic, though, is regarding copy variation and some quality control issues. Buying and returning lenses until you get a good copy can be quite daunting. I have had no issue with my CV or Zeiss lenses, but a minor ones with Laowa and disastrous ones with Sony. In the end I gave up on getting good Sony GM copies, as I don’t really enjoy AF anyway. If you look at the MTF measurements presented by Roger Cicala over at LensRentals, you can also see that Zeiss’ own measurements are very reliable, while Sony’s are very much not.

               I would indeed also love to see the great team here give these two lenses a shot. I think these manufacturers have improved over time, and are offering interesting and ambitious designs compared to the well established brands… and they are MF of course. Looking at the incredibly affordable Zhong Yi cinema lenses, for example, I would really like to try the T1 line-up for low-light photography.

               Let’s hope lens manufacturers see the gaping hole for medium, telephoto primes between 135mm and 400mm. As you can see from my previous comment, Sigma has already identified this gap and is apparently prepared to exploit it. That first stab might indeed be successful, and consequently attract competitors. If you pay attention to the comments on that SonyAlphaRumors post, you’ll see the interest is very much there.

               Thanks again for the recommendation, Crazy Leica Fox, and enjoy a great weekend.

7. Great review as always. Lens takes very nice portraits but there are many more lenses I’d need before this one. I’d probably be okay with Nikons 180mm F2.8 for much less $ (and weight and performance).

   Also, kudos for managing to nail focus with that lens while photographing a dog. Especially little ones like that, they’re quite active.

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8. Well if you’d have a chance to come to Shanghai, A Canon 200mm f1.8 x 0.8 converter (with AF) and A Contax 200mm f2 might be waiting for you(and a hell range of vintage lens):)

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   1. I always wanted to visit Shanghai 🙂

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